Without any personal message Guerlain legal service attacked me on blogger.com about what I haver posted on Guerlain Idylle - Coty and it seems that I have to remove all, otherwise my acount will be deleted.
Because this kind of intimidation without any previous contact or element for Guerlain doesn't please me at all I will anounce you that I will ban the Guerlain name from my blog and my books in work. I will make no more mention about Guerlain products neither their history, anytime and anywhere.
You are free to support me or to support the Guerlain policy against me.
If you loved anything I wrote online about Guerlain since 2005, including vintage reviews or images that were not published before or texts from XIXth century, you are free to save them on your computer. Tomorrow I might erase everything.
Mes chers lecteurs français,
Il me semble que les choses commencent à changer dans la blogosphère même si hier après midi j'ai passé une excellente journée avec certains d'entre vous, organisée par Mme Sylvaine Delacourte et que j'ai décrite ce matin. Suite à mon billet sur Idylle Coty je viens d'être attaqué par le service legal de Guerlain via blogger.com. Je n'ai reçu aucun message / mail de Guerlain même si mon adresse est bien affichée depuis longtemps sous ma photo. Je n'ai ni le temps, ni l'envie de jouer la carte d'aucune marque de luxe. Pour cette raison le nom de Guerlain sera "interdit" sur mon blog et effacé dans les livres sur lesquels je travaille, ainsi que dans mes articles en Roumanie ou je les présentées depuis des années.
Si vous avez aimé quelques articles que j'ai écrit depuis 2005, des photos jamais pubbliées ou des reviews des vintages vous êtes libres à les sauvagarder car à partir de demain il est possible que j'efface tout.
En même temps vous êtes libres à me soutenir ou à soutenir une marque de luxe qui est contre moi de manière officielle depuis ce matin. Je suis venu vivre en France car j'ai pensé que c'était un pays de la liberté et du respect. J'ai découvert un autre type de luxe.
UPDATE: the final review of Idylle Guerlain (to conclude this story)
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96 commentaires:
I am appalled, but not surprised. The behemoth LVMH is throwing its weight around to intimidate the "little guys" into giving up any independent thinking. Shame on them for doing it in such a sneaky way.
why don't you buy your own .com domain? Or anything else, .biz, info, fr?
Guerlain doesn't surprise me at all, it is blogger.com that is an unpleasant surprise.
Octavian, ce n'est pas une attaque qui vous est destinée personnellement. Nous avons tous du surprimer nos photos d'Idylle parce l'image a été mise en ligne trop tôt sans leur autorisation visiblement: moi même et auparfum en avions fait les frais bien avant vous (image retirée depuis deux semaine). Est ce bien grave ?
Dear Octavian, I am very surprised: your comment on the striking similarities between ads and bottles was (alas) very pertinent.
I am surprised that Guerlain puts in place such an aggressive policy with an independent blogger who has spent many pages nourishing the myth connected with the name (beautiful vintage ads, history and words of praise as well as argumented critics). Without the grand past, and retrò looking flacons, I doubt Guerlain would still sell today. Or maybe I am biased: their vanillic, powedery and obvious juices have never made it on my shelves.
But I wouldn't erase the word Guerlain from your work: that would be a pity, wouldn't it? And I am sure the idea would hurt you a bit. I would disclose each time what had just happened, and then write and comment as usual.
Go ahead, you are a wonderful and clean blogger.
p.s. What an unwise move from LVMH. I think they got mean BECAUSE of the "pertinence" of your comment. Fearing to get sued by the guys at CK?
Big Business inhibiting free speech, what a surprise. LVMH is bleeding hard from the crisis and I hope they bleed a lot more. As to Guerlain, the house's aesthetic death was sealed on the day the octopus took over. I will only be buying vintage Guerlain in the future and will let them know they have lost a customer. I agree though, you should keep considering pre-LVMH in your work, it is too relevant to ignore and cannot be blamed for their policies as part of the luxury Mafia
Octavian, comme je lis assez mal en anglais et que je n'aivais pas vu que c'était écrit également en français, je précise qu'effectivement, si cet avertissement prend les proportions que vous décrivez (ne plus pouvoir utiliser le nom et les illustrations de Guerlain) c'est plutôt grave. Je vous soutiens personnellement, même si je ne sais pas trop quoi faire. Je corrige donc mon précédent propos. A bientôt
Octavian,
Je suis abasourdi, même si comme D, pas vraiment étonné.
Le pire c'est que le contentieux viendrait uniquement d'une date de publication... Que les marques veuillent maîtriser leur communication, on le comprend mais tout ce battage pour un nom dévoilé, une photo alors que forcément cela avait filtré ailleurs (voir auparfum.com)... Que d'énergie dépensée inutilement par les services juridiques. C'est vraiment l'illustration de propos certes un peu réducteurs qu'on lit partout au sujets des marques qui ne s'intéressent qu'au nom, au flacon, à la pub... mais beaucoup moins au jus.
Bien sûr je te soutiens mais à part le dire derrière notre petit ordinateur, que faire ?
moi aussi je vous soutiens, mais il n'y a-t-il aps possibilité de vous expliquer avec eux? que c'est un malentendu sur les dates de communication etc..? ce que ej trovue bizarre c'est qu'ils en vous aient aps envoyé un avertissement, comme à jeanne d'au parfum et méchant loup plutôt que de vous attaquer , directement?
Octavian, I'm sadly not surprised by this at all. Many of us who share news and opinions online have received similar threats by various perfume houses.
You have my full support!
It doesn't surprise me at all. I also received the invitation, but I thought 'why bother' after my experience last year during the 180-years festivities of Guerlain. I had the chance to interview Sylvaine Delacourte and Thierry Wasser. They didn't listen to my questions at all (one was: is 180 years not a strange year to celebrate, 'etiquette-wise' you do it only when you celebrate your 25, 50, 75, 100 and so forth... if you don't respect that 'rule' you keep on celebrating... no answer). Then I congratulated them both on Quand vient La Pluie. For me it's already one to two best perfumes of this century. They didn't bother to ask what the other one was. I'm so bored to act only as an applauding machine during an interview. "Oui, je suis ravie de votre nouvel parfum, bla-di-bla". One comforting thought: in the end it will backfire, consumers are not that stupid. One example: lately I met a francaise in Brussels during a diner. I knew see was wearing L de Lolita Lempicka. I told her, if you like this one so much, you must try also Musc Ravageur, created by the same nose. I then see blurted it all out. How she was so disappointed by Guerlain. Why did they made her favorite (Shalimar) so terrible, what ever happened to Vetiver and L'Heure Bleue? I told that Guerlain still creates some lovely perfumes - Rose Barbare, Chypre Fatale. See couldn't be convinced. No more Guerlain for her. I think she's not the only one!
Dear Octavian:
This is a horrible turn of events and I am sorry you have been selected for punishment for your expression of free speech. What is a critic if not someone who can speak freely?
Shame on them!
Anya
Octavian,
Imi pare foarte rau de ceea ce ti s-a intamplat. Daca nu mai are nimeni voie sa spuna ceea ce gandeste inseamna ca Franta nu e o tara democratica. Fiecare are dreptul sa-si spuna opiniile chiar daca uneori acest lucru deranjeaza .
Eu te sustin in tot ceea ce faci !
Roxana
désolée Octavian ,après cet échange entre passionnés , je viens découvrir ce problème ,je vais essayer de voir ce qui s'est réellement passé, j 'étais au courant de la demande du retrait de la pub par guerlain , parce que nous n'étions pas couvert pour les droits et tout avait eté annoncé avant que les journalistes ne découvre ce nouveau parfum !
pour le reste , je suis sous le choc!! a très vite
Octavian, like others have said above, I'm appalled but not completely surprised, considering the company in question.
I don't know anything about European laws, but it sounds iffy to me. If at all possible, please consult a lawyer before you let them silence your voice. The advice above about getting your own domain is also very good.
I might join you in boycotting all things Guerlain. Their new perfume releases bore me out of my mind, and when it come to lipsticks there are more than enough other brands to enjoy and write about
From the comment left by Dominique I guess once you removed the image of Guerlain Idylle from your webpage they will stop hassling you.
http://1000fragrances.blogspot.com/2009/04/idylle-between-coty-and-guerlain.html
to Eric , sorry, if you were dispointed about my answers!it is not my style to "not answer to some questions "my english is not perfect , my be i missed something ??
by the way, what was the other perfume ??
you can ask some more questions on my blog! esprit de parfum if you want !!
sylvaine
Shame on Guerlain and "LVHM the dictator"!
I no longer have interest in this perfume house. I couldn't care less anymore about Guerlain and their botched reformulated classics, pricey exclusives and girly fruity gourmands.
Noua, celor de acasa, atitudinea Guerlain este un "deja vue". Fara critica tovarasi!!!.
Te sustin in ceea ce faci si iti urez precum francezul Goethe "keep up on good working"
You know, I am not remotely surprised. I swore off Guerlain purchases some time ago, after they were utterly snotty to me. I see nothings changed. Your blog is lovely. Do what you need to do to keep it going and move on from here.
Octavian, You have my full support...
Guerlain, when you read this, SUCK EGGS and DIE!!!
Dear Octavian, what a shame on the part of LVMH! For all the readers around the world who admire your deep knowledge and read daily your blog, it will be a pity you'll never write about Guerlain, their history and perfumes in future. What a loss! But... this is the only choice they've left you, and I feel you are doing the right (though sad) thing. Keep telling us about all the other brands!
looks like Sylvaine reads this blog, well I might as well take the chance to say that all current Guerlains (both old and new) smell positively cheap. Recently I was at a Guerlain counter trying to explain the rich heritage of the brand to a friend of mine (non-perfumista) and his reaction was that he "didn't see it, smells cheap". I then smelled for myself and had to admit he was right. Serge Lutens got his $130 instead!!
This was posted anonymously because I also blog and I dont want any Big Brother eyes watching my blogs every move from now on.
looks like Sylvaine reads this blog, well I might as well take the chance to say that all current Guerlains (both old and new) smell positively cheap. Recently I was at a Guerlain counter trying to explain the rich heritage of the brand to a friend of mine (non-perfumista) and his reaction was that he "didn't see it, smells cheap". I then smelled for myself and had to admit he was right. Serge Lutens got his $130 instead!!
This was posted anonymously because I also blog and I dont want any Big Brother eyes watching my blogs every move from now on.
Je suis essoufflée, j'acheterai plus du Guerlain et j'écrirai plus mes opinions sur cette Maison HONTEUSE si les actions légales contre vous ne seront pas supprimées.
Vous et votre blog sont le meilleur point de repère pour les perfumistas de tout le monde.
My Vintage Guerlain Coriolan men's fragrance smelled positively wonderful, as I poured it into the toilet.
Now, I don't have to pretend anymore that the guerlain line is supposed to be a good product, or smell good either. Now the world can know the truth, that as well as their fragrances being stinky, so is their dictatorial style and puerile business practices. No More pacification of this Hitler/Stalin/Guerlain.
I used to be a Guerlain fan. I wore L'Heure Bleue, Shalimar, Vol de Nuit, Chamade and Samsara, all in extract which I bought by the ounce, along with the body products. When the LVMH group took over and perverted the Guerlain creations in the vulgar swill that we know today, I decided it was time to say goodbye. I haven't bought a Guerlain product in years. I am not surprised by the actions taken by LVMH, it fits right in with their dictatorial approach to business and fragrance making. What am I sure about, however, if that if there were a "lemon law" for fragrances as there is for cars, what is now known as Guerlain would be repeatedly sued and driven off the market. Today's Guerlain fragrances are barely fit to deodorize a public bathroom or embalm a cadaver, and I'm being generous.
cher octavian
je vous soutiens a fond, tout ça parce qu'un nom est devoilé avant la sortie? bon sang, on est a l'ere du net, guerlain ne doit pas se prendre pour le maitre du monde
si cette histoire ne s'arrange pas, je boycotterais tous les produits guerlain que ce soit en parfum soins, maquillage et j'en ferais part au maximum de personnes sur le web et dans mon entourage
par contre, l'intervention de sylvaine est de bonne augure, enfin j'espere, car j'aime beaucoup cette dame et ce qu'elle reflete, elle me semble une personne tres sincere et j'espere qu'elle pourra regler cette histoire abracadabrante
franchement, j'ai cru a une blague la
Dear Octavian, you have my full support!!
What a bad impression!!!
Octavian, I'm sorry that this has happened to you, and I wish you all the best in dealing with this situation.
Octavian, I just blogged and tweeted about the situation, which has ramifications for all bloggers http://tr.im/puta
Full support for Octavian.
All this didn't have to go so far ! This wonderfull brand doesn't deserve all this !
Ca n'aurait pas du aller si loin pour si peu. Cette marque merveilleuse qui fait encore partie de notre patrimoine ne mérite pas tout cela ! Sincerely !
Mechant Loup, Guerlain etait marque merveilleuse veritable patrimoine de la parfumerie francaise qui malheureusement ne fait que de decliner en qualite et en creation depuis les annees LVMH!
Demandez aux femmes qui portent Mitsouko et Shalimar depuis de nombreuses annees ce qu'elles pensent des versions actuelles reformulees meme en extrait de parfum! Demandez-leur encore ce qu'elles pensent des nouveautes rose-bonbon et des exclusifs hors de prix sans grand interet...
In caz ca aveai vreun dubiu ca nu multa lume te-asculta, uite cat de important esti. :) Imi pare rau pentru abordarea asta. *Madeleine
Si j'avais au moins. Je sais bien ce que pensent ces femmes et je partage cet avis sur bien des points. Est ce une raison pour "tuer" Guerlain ? J'exprimais juste ici le fait que je trouve cela dommage et que cela va très loin pour ce qui n'était qu'un avertissement et pas une attaque personnelle contre Octavian me semble t il. Moi même et auparfum avons du faire de même, et il n'y a pas eu de drame.
I am disgusted by LVMH and their antics in this case,add me to the chorus of voices supporting you Octavian.
Though it is sad to see the rich history of what was once a reputable family business striken from this blog , I can see your point , the evil which has taken over does not deserve any attention at all.
I agree with Zazie here, it's most likely that what you posted was quite pertinent- the bottle comparison is probably a little TOO obvious and they are afraid of having it at the public forefront. But this has much larger implications for all bloggers, as Anya has commented.
So sorry it has come to this. The truth is too much for LVMH. I too support you in whatever decision you make.
After all the wonderful posts you have made on Guerlain fragrance and keeping the history of the house alive it seems so foolish for them to do this to you. They are spiting themselves.
LMVH is foolish to bully perfume bloggers this way. They are alienating their biggest fans. Octavian, I hope you do not delete your earlier posts. You worked hard. I'm sure people still enjoy reading what you wrote. I love classic Guerlain. I won't stop loving it just because the current house owners stink.
Octavian,
Amazing that Guerlain could think this kind of action do anything other than paint them in a negative and spiteful light. Especially when considering their pitiful recent releases that are posing as fine perfumes.
Anya put it perfectly "What is a critic if not someone who can speak freely?"
Stay strong.
Bonjour Octavian,
Quelle est la raison réelle de tout cela ? Est-ce vraiment pour un problème de publicité montrée trop tôt ?
Dans votre article sur Idylle, vous accusez Guerlain de contrefaçon, de plagiat, voire de parasitisme vis à vis de Coty et de Calvin Klein...Le service juridique de Guerlain a peut être réagi à cause de cela ! et surtout à cause de cela...Est-ce que Coty et Calvin Klein ont lancé un procès contre Guerlain pour cela ? Pas pour le moment et peut être jamais. Mais vous, vous l'avez commencé le procès et votre média est un élément juridique réel ! Je pense que le problème est surtout là !
Bon Courage Octavian et finalement cette histoire vous permet peut être de vous rendre compte que votre blog a un Réel Poids dans l'industrie !!.....
Bonjour Octavian,
Quelle est la raison réelle de tout cela ? Est-ce vraiment pour un problème de publicité montrée trop tôt ?
Dans votre article sur Idylle, vous accusez Guerlain de contrefaçon, de plagiat, voire de parasitisme vis à vis de Coty et de Calvin Klein...Le service juridique de Guerlain a peut être réagi à cause de cela ! et surtout à cause de cela...Est-ce que Coty et Calvin Klein ont lancé un procès contre Guerlain pour cela ? Pas pour le moment et peut être jamais. Mais vous, vous l'avez commencé le procès et votre média est un élément juridique réel ! Je pense que le problème est surtout là !
Bon Courage Octavian et finalement cette histoire vous permet peut être de vous rendre compte que votre blog a un Réel Poids dans l'industrie !!.....
Tu n'es pas rancunier, dis... J'aurais effacé tous mes posts immédiatement moi, surtout avec mon caractère :p Guerlain était vraiment un MAITRE Parfumeur en son temps mais ça, c'était il y a bien longtemps; maintenant leurs fragrances ne sont même plus descriptibles, c'est juste chimique et sans âme... nous, les consommateurs, ne sommes que les dindons de la farce après tout, marketing/fric/masse sont les MAITRES-mots de TOUTES les entreprises quelqu'elles soient, nos opinions sont, elles, censurables et censurées... hé oui, c'est ça la démocratie à la Française (et je pense qu'ici c'est pire qu'ailleurs)
Bonsoir Anonymous,
La "critique" d'Octavian ne peut-être associée à de la diffamation! Vous évoquez les noms de "contrefaçon, plagiat, voire de parasitisme" dans votre commentaire, mais où avez-lu cela? Allons, allons, il n'y a que la Vérité qui blesse, non? La critique d' Octavian n'est alors pas si infondée cela ;-)
L'argument de la marque n'ayant pas été couverte au niveau des droits au moment de la fuite serait tout à fait justifié et compréhensible. MAIS ce qui est ridicule, c'est que le blog d'Octavian a été "attaqué" alors que Idylle a été officiellement présenté à la presse le 17 Juin, c'est-à-dire il y a presque une semaine, et que les photos de l'égérie présentant le flacon sont d'ailleurs toujours visibles sur le site people.premiere.fr (ils n'ont apparement pas été menacés; mais bon c'est vrai que people première n'a pas critiqué ni le nom ni le flacon). Je pense qu'ils veulent créer un malaise pour brider la plume d'Octavian, j'espère bien qu'ils n'y arriveront pas. Continuez donc à écrire sur Guerlain, après-tout ils ne peuvent pas vous censurer au-delà de certaines limites. Et puis, je ne pense pas que votre vie serait menacée si vous postiez une critique particulièrement acerbe, alors ne leur faites pas le plaisir d'avoir réussi à faire taire une voix tellement légitime et libre!
Muguette
PS:si seulement ils avaient mis un tout petit peu de cette énergie à défendre leurs classiques des reformulations!
Muguette
Octavian,
You have my full support. Don't let the LVMH bullies bother you. What would be their claim? Idylle and Secret Obsession *do* look very alike--I would think they would not want to bring that fact to Calvin Klein's attention! Damage to their reputation? Bah--they damaged their own reputation long ago by cheapening their classics and putting out utter filth like Petite Robe Noire.
Best to you.
I would be deeply saddened if you choose to delete your extensive, and deeply informative Guerlain work. That said, Guerlain is a bit of a joke these days, isn't it? Good luck with the goons from LVMH.
Truth is an absolute defense to defamation or libel charges in France and elsewhere.
Dear Octavian, I regret they had this unprofessional action against you. It was disgusting, a putrid scent on the perfume blogsphere.
Firstly, you are a great historian and fragrance writer which has collaborated during years and years to perfumery studies and the genuine love of fragrances all over the world. Your outstanding writings, mainly those dedicated to spread Guerlain knowledge among us is indeed precious, so it is awful to see that LVMH could not look in a wise and respectful way at your splendid work during years(including your lovely words about Guerlain heritage) before using this brutal censorship to keep your silence.
This threat is against all of us. Truly a censorship against the freedom in opinion-making we all have as a natural right, no matter the expertise or passion area. This is a censorship not only against you, it is a censorship against the love for perfumery.
Stay brave, my friend! Don't let anyone stop your gifted and brilliant mind! Show them you are not a slave of the censorship, you deserve to be respected and apologisies.
Bon courage, Octavian! You have my full support! I'm so sorry to hear that this has happened.
Another of your US readers, offering full support. I'm a Shalimar fan, and really enjoyed the limited release of Habit Rouge Extrait from last year, but Guerlain has lost ground with many of us perfumistas over the years. Attacking bloggers, especially a well-respected historian like you is just silly. Clearly their lawyers are clueless. Don't let them intimidate you from continuing your work as a critic!
Octavian, you are my hero! No more Guerlain for me! We need more bloggers like you to tell the truth!
I am very shocked that you are being threatened with having your account deleted - how can they do that? They don't own Blogger/Google - yet.
Oups, vous avez raison Grain2beauté ! Désolé Octavian pour mon commentaire ! vous mettez le doigt là où ça fait mal et Guerlain est Très Agacé par autant de Franchise...et de Culture......
Octavian est pour moi l'une des plus brilliantes sources actuelles. Sa culture parfum me souffle régulièrement et en plus, il a des C.......
Tenez-nous au courant Octavian et surtout ne disparaissez pas car la Parfumerie Moderne a Grand Besoin de Grande Personne comme vous.
En espérant que tout cela se calme
Oups, vous avez raison Grain2beauté ! Désolé Octavian pour mon commentaire ! vous mettez le doigt là où ça fait mal et Guerlain est Très Agacé par autant de Franchise...et de Culture......
Octavian est pour moi l'une des plus brilliantes sources actuelles. Sa culture parfum me souffle régulièrement et en plus, il a des C.......
Tenez-nous au courant Octavian et surtout ne disparaissez pas car la Parfumerie Moderne a Grand Besoin de Grande Personne comme vous.
En espérant que tout cela se calme
I also second the comments of several others, that Blogger/Google needs to get slammed as well for threatening to restrict Octavian's free speech. There are many other perfume bloggers using this hosting service. Do they need to worry about threatening letters too? Reminds me of evilbay from a few years ago....
Maybe it's time for everyone to jump ship to other domains...
Octavian, as a great fan of your blog, you have my support 100%! This whole thing is disgraceful, LVMH truly has no shame. Though my love for many Guerlain fragrances is great, it is not nearly as strong as my hate of censorship. Carry on, Octavian!
Like we have discussed, although I realise that it is incommodating for something to be unwrapped before it's "ready" (the Idylle pics etc), it is not in the best of form on LVMH's part to proceed to intimidation through Blogger action! I would have expected from Blogger especially to be a little more complacent to your position however (is it enough to be a giant corporation to have everything you say taken as fact without evaluation?) and this last bit is trully shocking/alarming for everyone using this platform.
Hoping that Sylvaine might intervene like mentioned above and you could continue to go on your excellent path as always.
Dear Octavian,
I do share the feelings of disappointment and anger when I read about the fact, that you’ve been approached by Guerlain legal services with a request to delete your blog entry threatening to delete your blogger account otherwise. Such an indirect (via blogger) and directive approach looks indeed like an intimidation from a powerful organization that is used to rule and control.
But I do also deeply regret your decision to ban Guerlain from your writings (and your life?). As a historian you often deal with separation of facts and emotions to preserve the ungarbled view on events. Your precious entries are full of rare and unique facts, interesting parallels and wise conclusions. To me (and I guess for many others too) your blog is a source of inspiration and knowledge. Guerlain is much more than a perfume house under LVHM. Would you pass a wet sponge over all its great history? Would you waste all the great work you’ve already done on collecting and organizing the information on Guerlain? Please, don’t let this single incident control your work as historian.
Octavian, please, keep in touch about the development of recent events. I do hope, that it’s more based on a misunderstanding than it looks like.
Bonjour Octavian, je trouve cette façon de procéder particulièrement inélégante. Si le service juridique de Guerlain avait un problème avec ce que vous disiez dans votre billet, pourquoi ne pas vous en parler directement ? De notre côté, nous avons eu un différent avec un propriétaire de marque il y a quelques temps, cette personne nous a écrit un mail, où il était, certes ferme mais courtois, nous avons d’ailleurs obtempéré à sa demande et ceci même si nous n’en étions pas obligés légalement. Tout cela s’est passé de manière normale et raisonnable, je regrette que cela ne soit pas le cas pour vous. Cela dit,je trouverai vraiment dommage que vous effaciez vos billets concernant Guerlain, ceux-ci sont d’une grande valeur pour les passionnés de parfum ! Mais je comprends votre colère... Courage Octavian et à bientôt pour d'autres billets passionnants.
What about boycotting Blogger.com? I think we should write them to protest against cenzorship.
Mais enfin, c'est ridicule, il suffit de taper Idylle Guerlain sur google pour tomber sur une floppée de sites qui affichent le visuel de ce parfum! Octavian, pour ne pas être inquiété, je vous suggère à l'avenir de recopier les critiques de people-première, je cite:
Du charme, de l’élégance… on craque pour la comédienne Nora Arzeneder, vue notamment dans " Faubourg 36 ".Un joli minois, un sourire enchanteur, des yeux dans lesquels on seperd, la belle qui présentait, mercredi 17 juin 2009, sur lesChamps-Elysées, le nouveau parfum de la maison Guerlain "Idylle", unmodèle dessiné par Ora Ito et dont elle est l’égerie, nous emmène dansson sillage et nous enivre…
LOOOOOOOL
Muguette
Guerlain was, and still is a wonderful house, with a rich tradition.
It is only very sad that freedom of speach what also includes Blogging... .
LVMH is LVMH... .
It is still no reason to boycot Guerlain. If you are angry, be angry at LVMH.
This is becoming a ridiculous discussion.
I still keep on buying Guerlain Creations.
The world of perfuming is getting more and more industrialized and commercialized. Guerlain has done it still very well so far, althought they even had to compromise when they were bought by LVMH.... .
Guerlain is the "Creating and Artistic" Part - LMVH is all about MONEY. They are worlds apart but closely connected. Not an easy job for Guerlain to deal with that on a day to day basis... . We should all keep that in mind. Jean-Paul Guerlain is still involved and passionated about HIS House, and still involved.
Thierry Wasser and Sylvaine Delacourte are very close to Jean-Paul Guerlain. The "Maison Guerlain" is alive!
I will not join boycotting Guerlain. I am more into boycoting the EU-reglementation on Oakmoss...
I think both respponsabilities are involved. Wim Janssens i right in that way. Guerlain must follow EU reglementations ... you will tell me "why didn't they fight unfair laws" i don't know and the debate isn't on this point.
I am personnaly in toutch with sylvaine D, because i helped her to launch her PERSONAL blog, and she told me just a minute ago that since yesterday she is waiting for informations from the Law services at Guerlain in order to understand what could have happened. I DO NOT WORK for Guerlain or LVMH so i can speak freely: i really can't beleive they are mistaking that way with blogger(s)& the web community. I think that they just react with fear ! The fear to be attacked from everywhere. People are waitting for one thing: Guerlain do make a mistake, Than they can criticize in a legitimate way.
I'm a child of the web, i beleive in the user generated content and the power of the web user as a consumer. I mean the best thing for a brand is feedback !! They really should try that.
Insulting Guerlain will not help them to change. They have to stop seiing bloggers as a problem, they have to learn from their mistakes, times are changing, so will they.
Vive Guerlain & vive les Blogs !!!
Edourd,
I do agree with you at all!
I just love Oakmoss :)
Indeed: Vive Guerlain & Vive Blogs!
Edouard, c'est génial d'être intervenu. Un réponse objective et éclairée ! I do agree too. Guerlain doit certes progresser et s'ouvrir, c'est ce qu'ils font à priori, mais certainement pas mourrir : "si tu tombes sept fois, toujours se relever, huit;)" c'est comme cela que le monde avance !
wim janssen, when I'm about to buy Chant d'Aromes in parfum from Les Parisiennes line and I'm told it's been discontinued, again, but that I should buy My Insolence instead, I believe Guerlain has failed to maintain its past heritage and prestige. I don't need a perfume house like Guerlain if I wanted a girly pink gourmand like My Insolence, I can buy something similar anywhere. I also believe Idylle will always be closer to Secret Obsession than Mitsouko, (the real Mitsouko, not the reformulation with that awful bread-like top note and linear evolution).
From now on, if I buy anything from Guerlain, it'll be vintage fragrances, pre-LVMH formulations and era.
Really terrible bullying, but is that a surprise for someone?
Enjoy freedom of this... and freedom of that... I don`t belive in any freedom any more.
Guerlain is ruined by LVMH, and I don`t know ANYONE who thinks otherwise.
Still, you should keep preLVMH Guerlain reviews. I don`t think that any single one of Mr. Guerlains would be happy to see what is LVMHGuerlain producing today.
Nu-mi vine să cred. Reacţia asta mi se pare nu numai "comunistă", ci şi stupidă - în felul ăsta nu reuşesc decât atragă atenţia şi să amplifice scandalul. Dacă se prefăceau că-ţi ignoră blog-ul ar fi ieşit mult mai puţin şifonaţi.
Nu poţi să-ţi deschizi blog altundeva? Nu-mi vine să cred că LVMH controlează chiar tot net-ul.
Je pense qu'il est ridicule d'assimiler le service juridique de LVMH-Guerlain au côté créatif et artistique. Qu'Octavian se sente choqué, c'est compréhensible, mais il faut arrêter de mettre de l'huile sur le feu avec certains commentaires exagérés. Que le service juridique LVMH-Guerlain fasse ses excuses à Octavian et voilà, point final, fin de l'histoire. Le visuel d'Idylle n'a aucune raison d'être retiré puisque le parfum a été officiellement présenté à la presse. Pour ce qui est de débattre de la qualité des nouvelles créations de Guerlain, je trouve personnellement que ce qui arrive à Dior est pire, je ne comprends pas pourquoi c'est spécialement Guerlain qui est régulièrement la cible de ce débat.Et je suis aussi furieuse que tout le monde que l'industrie du parfum ne se soit pas battue pour éviter l'éviction de la mousse de Chêne ou du Jasmin de Grasse, mais ce n'est pas le sujet ici. Concernant ceci, la bataille n'est pas perdue, ayons un esprit plus constructif et parlons-en à une autre occasion pour organiser par exemple une pétition des bloggueurs et réfléchir à des solutions concrètes pour un meilleur avenir de la parfumerie! Je pense qu'il est temps que la blogosphère devienne une voix organisée et active, et pas juste des bla-bla gratuitement agressifs comme certains commentaires ici.
Looks like LVMH has no better way of saving their brands than bullying small guys.
Shame on LVMH!!!
I am surprised; I was under the impression that blogs are space of personal expression, the bloggers opinion - irrespective of it being biased or unbiased
Oui enfin, qu'un service juridique d'une Maison quelqu'elle soit, en l'occurence Guerlain, somme (car tel est le mot) un blogueur de retirer tel article sous risque de suppression de compte, ça c'est vraiment gratuit et qui plus est agressif. Guerlain est au sein de CE débat puisque c'est le service juridique de Guerlain qui est à l'origine de ce même débat, logique. Après il se peut que ce soit Dior ou Lancôme qui prennent le même chemin, mais nous n'en sommes pas encore là, donc... Par contre, l'idée d'organiser une sorte de cahier de doléances à l'encontre des Parfumeurs est une idée génialissime, j'adhère à 200%!
I am beginning to think the freedom to even have an opinion is being eroded . I havn't read your posts . Here is one thing I'd like to say to Guerlain "TRAIN YOUR SALES GIRLS I KEEP MEETING IDIOTS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE PERFUMES"
For your information Mr Jean Paul Guerlain sees , knows, approves all the projects.
as guerlain would still be an independant and a family brand, we would be forced to reformulate. As you can see it is not because we belong to LVMH !
and finally , everyday we are fighting to keep our masterpieces like Mitsouko
That makes me even more devastated. That Mr. Guerlain approved, among other things, that sex loaded video add for Shalimar. Shalimar deserves much more distinguished and sofisticated approach than Secret Obsession. Reformulations... I`m not educated enough do discuss that, but lower cost of production (and higher profit) is important as well.
I had the exact same thought, Alexandra... I'm "born" with Guerlain, my mother, my aunt, my grand-mother were all addicted to the perfumes' brand. And since 2003, with fragrances such as Insolence, My Insolence, Insolence Eau Glacée, L'Instant, L'Instant Magic, Shalimar Eau de Shalimar Edition Fleur de Shalimar, Guerlain, the real Guerlain just vanished. I can't distinguish the Guerlain's touch anymore in his own perfumes...
How very school-yard bully of Guerlain, uh, LVMH. This happens, I believe, with organizations so big and bloated that they no longer even know what their own people are doing. I will be watching Google blogger, too, as my own blog is harbored there.
So what is next? Will LVMH pull their advertising from the New York Times if Mr. Burr doesn't like one of the Guerlain perfumes? Or will they simply rattle swords, in an attempt to silence one, and then possibly more, independent voices?
On the other hand, how gratifying to see that they take fragrance blogs this seriously. Of course, we are the only ones talking about minor issues like stealth reformulations. Without our little community, who would know?
I have very frequently poked fun at the new Guerlain releases and criticized them, and would love nothing more than to have more Chamades, Nahemas and Chant d'Arômes, more Mitsoukos, L'Heure Bleue and Shalimar, but... times have changed, not only at Guerlain, consumer tastes have changed, the market is international... I mean, when all is said and done, it's about profit, isn't it?
And everyone in the industry, not just Guerlain and LVMH, is responsible for not fighting to preserve key raw materials against overly stringent IFRA restrictions.
I wouldn't wear Insolence or La Petite Robe Noire because they're not my style at all, but to say they're not Guerlain, or bad, is in my opinion inaccurate. They do reflect a *part* of the Guerlain heritage. And I'm glad that their best-sellers maintain the house afloat so that we still have access to the classics, such as they are.
That said, I don't think that in this debate, and in our support to Octavian, we should confuse the issue by taking on both the perfumes and the strong-arm policy against a much-admired blogger. These are two different things. One is all about the market, the other about trying to squish independent voices.
We may be riled up about both, but in the first case, we can vote with our wallets, while in the second, we can fear for our venues of free expression.
A part?! Which part?! Insolence have nothing to do with the Guerlain heritage! And I know what means the word "Heritage". Guerlain was all about delicacy, subtlety, history even but not anymore unfortunately. But I agree, perfumes have nothing to do with the original debate.
One thing though, for me, a "family" brand doesn't blackmail a blogger through their legal service but find a more friendly way to say and to put things.
Carmencanada, I beg to differ on one point. Just because it's 2009 and not 1985, I'm not sure the market has changed so much in favor of pink girly gourmands and fruity florals, after all, those fragrances sales were down 6.2% last year (before the crisis) in the US whilst sales of classic perfumes like No.5 didn't decline at all thanks to quality and intelligent marketing.
Obviously something's not working. Maybe people don't see the point in buying pricey fragrances that smell like candy and shower gels...
+1
This is becoming really sad... .
Sylvaine is true about it.
Jean-Paul Guerlain is really involved in everything what happens at Guerlain.
Fragrances who exist already during a long time have to be reformulated. There is no other way. The ingredients are not the same as the time they were produced and/or released, or ingredients are forbidden, like natural musk, civet, ... .
Guerlain has always been the inventer, the forerunner, the one who was always the inventer of new revolutions in the perfume world.
Today Guerlain is still doing the same thing. I love Insolence, Cologne du 68, Guerlain Homme, ... as much as I do love Shalimar, Jicky, Mitsouko, Chants D'Arômes, ... .
Jean-Paul Guerlain and the people who work close with him are people who are not afraid of change and who dare to go into a completely new path.
People do not like change.
The all so called "devoted" Guerlain Fans, are the most narrow minded ones. Guerlain has always been revolutionary, so accept by example "Insolence" as a work of art!
"The all so called "devoted" Guerlain Fans, are the most narrow minded ones". Ooooh, this is a fun one! Don't force us to like Insolence, this is not a work of art but a piece of crap! And devoted doesn't mean leak ass...
I am wearing Insolence in edp today, it is smelling fantastic on my skin!
I had first the same reaction about Insolence, but this fragrance really deserves to be discovered several times. It took me time but now I absolutely love it, and Emanuela, I remember you saying once that you enjoyed wearing it sometimes "for the fun". It totally respects the Guerlain heritage, it is a modern and delicious variation on Après l'Ondée! Maurice Roucel is a fantastic artist, it is a real pity that Guerlain didn't choose him to be their home parfumer.
Muguette
Si j'avais au moins, you read my blog and know what I think and what I defend. I certainly agree that people must be tired of endless variations on shower gel perfumes, but as fruities go, I'd rather smell Guerlains than many others. Though I'd really rather have my old Mitsouko, and wouldn't be caught dead in a fruity.
Graine2Beauté, I don't know if you read me: if you do, you know which aesthetics I defend and my activism concerning reformulations.
And I believe you must mean "lick ass"? "Leak" is "une fuite" -- the image is gross, but funny, though. ;-)
I won't go into the "heliotropin + ionones + coumarin" filiation between earlier fragrances like Après L'ondée and L'Heure Bleue, and the new releases, but it is rather obvious if you study their composition.
That "Guerlain was always revolutionary", on the other hand, is a broad statement that is open to debate. That Jacques Guerlain was a genius, no one can deny but if you look into perfume history for revolutions, look into François Coty's legacy.
What I'm saying is that those are different problems from what is at stake here, which is freedom of expression and the way big corporations try to intimidate independent criticism by attacking one of the best authors in this field.
Il faut raison garder.
Just for your info, here's my blog entry today
http://diggitt.blogspot.com/2009/06/google-blogger-censorship.html
Diggitt
My dear readers,
I published a conclusion, or the answer to the many comments you made here.
I do not want to mix the things - my unhappy event on tuesday morning with the aesthetic considerations on G. perfumes that I loved or criticised in the past, neither to the reformulation story.
There are several comments made here by my romanian readers and I wish to make a point here.
Neither French nor American readers did not know what Communism is / was. We lived it!
Discovering similar elements (freedom of speech and the desire to control everything) is something hard for me.
We lived outside freedom and in pure poverty dreaming of luxury items like soaps and deodorants.
Guerlain was a dream. Discovering in 2009, 20 years after 1989 when we left communism behind us, something that reminds me the Unique Voice of the Party is something bitter.
@Carmencanada: Mdr! Mon anglais frôle l'à-peu-près mais l'intention était là :-p
Je ne connaissais pas ton blog mais je viens de le découvrir. C'est une symphonie littéraire très plaisante à lire.
La liberté d'expression est un droit fondamental, les blogueurs devraient se regrouper afin de faire valoir ce droit (entre autre)
Octavian, je comprends très bien, je suis hongroise, mes parents ont fui le communisme et j'ai de nombreux amis qui ont vécu en transylvanie sous Ceaucescu. Il serait toutefois trop idéaliste d'imaginer que la liberté d'expression est totale où que ce soit, même si la répression n'atteint pas le niveau des communistes ou bien certaines dictatures contemporaines. On ne risque pas nos vies, ici, heureusement! Mais c'est vrai qu'il est troublant de constater que les blogs sont surveillés, d'heure en heure même, quand on voit la rapidité de réaction à certains commentaires, même.
Graine2beauté, c'est bien que grâce à ces échanges vous ayez découvert Grain de Musc, je suis personnellement complètement fan.
Muguette
Good morning Octavian,
I want to express you all my support. But I think we can't loose a patrimony like your precedent posts on G.! The past glory is not responsible of what is happening today.
At the same time I want to underline also the fair behavior of M.me Delacourte. She's also a little woman under very big businnes!
Go on Octavian!
I have had to take a few deep breaths before posting my reaction. I am an avid reader of your beautifully written blog, Octavian. Please know you have wide-reacting support. It is a pity that the legal department at LVMH is so nearsighted. They are “protecting” their short-term interests at the risk of at best losing customers and at worst portraying themselves as soulless, artless overlords. They have underestimated the digital world. No one appreciates censorship, especially the younger generations who are emerging as highly educated consumers. I assume they were expecting you to be intimated by their legalese; I applaud you for speaking out. I am not sure I can look at an LVMH product again and not think of this cowardly episode.
we will support you.
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